KFC @ Pollokshaws Road, Glasgow haram ("not permissible, not allowed")
Thanks for sending us a message. The Ulema of this Masjid don't consider HFA to be halal. Our Imams support the HMC certifying body (www.halalmc.net), which doesn't allow stunning, blessed blades, recorded tasmiyah, etc.
Best regards,
Glasgow Central Mosque
Salaam Brother/SIster,
Following a recent forward message stating that KFC @ Pollokshaws Road Glasgow is now Halal, I feel it is my responsibility and others to remind all the Muslim Brothers and Sisters in Islam of which food should be considered halal or haram in especially this changing Western society in which we live in today.
Firslty, I would like to ask a question regarding the recent change to KFC in Glasgow Pollokshaws Road on the 15th of October 2009. I would like to mention as detailed on there website (http://www.kfc.co.uk/about-kfc/halal/) it clearly states
KFC’s halal chicken stunned before slaughter?
Yes, due to our strict animal welfare standards, we insist that all our poultry is stunned before slaughter. Our halal chicken has been accredited by the Halal Food Authority, one of the most widely recognised bodies in the UK and overseas. It allows the use of a technique called 'stun-to-stun' - a pain free process that makes the animal insensible to pain and suffering. A verse is also recited from the Koran at the point of slaughter by The HFA accreditation which is clearly signposted in the participating restaurants allows us to offer halal accredited meat whilst remaining committed to the same animal welfare standards as before, which meet or exceed all relevant UK and EU legislation.
Now I clearly understand that the halal chicken offered at this participating restaurant is accredited by the HFA. However what startled me was that they use a process called "stun to stun" which scientifically can cause the chicken to die instantly or stunning it can just cause the chicken to become unconscious, hence causing pain before slaughter because being unconscious whilst stunned still means that the chicken is still alive and then they halal the chicken?Also, this stunning process they may use, for the sake of argument what if the chicken whilst stunned once, does not die, so they stun them second time and still does not die, until the fourth time the chicken dies, then that is surely a painful death of the animal itself.So once it dies from a couple of "stuns", it is already dead so the term halal does not apply as the animal has suffered pain whilst being stunned!. KFC regards this as a pain free process, how can this be possible? Lastly, it is hard to predict what happens behind close doors and Allah swt is all merciful and all forgiving.
In Islam, the correct way is to halal the chicken without any pain, in other words pain free. So why is this KFC in Pollokshaws Glasgow, approved by the HFA stating there chicken is halal when the process of "stunning" is applied.
I urge you to investigate this matter of urgency as early as possible, and I pray that you will come to a decision on whether this is proved halal or not. I believe that the Muslim Brothers and Sisters should be informed of what is regarded as halal and what should not be consumed at all.
I would be very much greatful if you could please inform me ASAP, regarding this matter as the majority of Muslims Brothers and Sisters are attending this KFC, regardless to some of the controversy arising in whether KFC is really halal or haram .
I have come to my conclusion that Muslims more or less have little knowledge of what restaurants (in Western areas) are actually halal or haram, or because of word of mouth from family or friends "they believe" it is "allowed" or "permissible". Another clear example of this issue is NANDOS at Springfield QUAY, on whether this us halal or haram.
I look forward from hearing from you soon, and wish you arrive with a decision ASAP.
I leave you with this final hadith.
“Eat not (O believers) of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has not been pronounced (at the time of the slaughtering of the animal)” [al-An’aam 6:121]
"Allah, Who is Blessed and Exalted, has prescribed benevolence toward everything and has ordained that everything be done in the right way; so when you must kill a living being, do it in the proper way - when you slaughter an animal, use the best method and sharpen your knife so as to cause as little pain as possible." (The Sahih Muslim, 2:156. Also Al-Taaj fi Jaami al-Usool, Vol. 3, p. 110, Cairo Edition. Also Al-Faruo min-al-Kafi, p. 2, and others.)
Kindest Regards,
Your Sister in Islam,
Jazakallah Khair,
Wasalam-u-allaikum-wa-rehmat-ul-lahi-wabarakatuhu-
Just because it says HALAL, doesn't meen it is HALAL!
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Comments
salaam, a few points to add
salaam,
a few points to add to this discussion as i too have been reading about this in the hope i can find an answer on whether or not i should go to KFC : )
HMC stance can be seen here in 4 points
http://www.halalmc.net/about_hmc/slaughter_criteria.html
Alhamdolillah they have done a great job in trying to get some kind of legislation/criteria for butcher shops, carry outs etc
Nobody could doubt that the meat they certify is 100% halal, however that doesnt mean the HFA stance is incorrect and there meat is not halal.
The HFA adheres to points 3 and 4 from the HMC website, the issue really is about points 1 and 2, stunning prior to slaughter and use of mechanical slaughtering.
Point 1 - Mechanical v Manual Slaughter
Obviously this is a contemporary issue - i havent really found much in way of any study or research regarding this in the UK but from the below links you can see that this has been an issue elsewhere and that the scholars have deemed mechanical slaughtering as halal if it meets the criteria that they have listed
http://www.halalfocus.com/artman2/publish/oceania/FIANZ_makes_peace_with...
http://www.malaysiahalalfoods.com/slaughter.html
In addition to this, i have been advised that on hajj in Mina when the qurbani is performed (approx 3 million animals, 1 for evry haji) this is all done mechanically and not by hand hence has been approved by scholars in Makkah
If anybody has any other info on this, plz share it with us all
The GMWA a very reputible organisation say that the first chicken on the conveyor belt would be halal but every other chicken wouldnt be based on what seems to be a technicality
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php?page=viewquestion&id=232
Point 2 - Stunning
HFA claim that the stun to stun method of stunning is not the same as other methods such as captive bolt system, gas system for asphyxiation, electrical stunning etc - see below link for full details from HFA site
http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/compliance.html
I think all scholars agree that as long as the animal is alive prior to slaughter then it is halal, the question is whetehr or not the stun kills the animal
Please see the below links regarding stunning which gives some background and also some scholarly opinion
Abraham Natural Produce
http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/stunning.php
http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/fatwa-stunning.php
Islamic Fiqh Council on Saudi Arabia
http://www.halalfocus.com/artman2/publish/halal-integrity/A_Fatwa_on_Stu...
Malaysian Scholars ruling
http://www.daffa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/128940/malaysia_appe...
The reason for the Abraham Produce links is because they are an organic supplier of halal meat who can vouch for who raised the meat, what it was fed on and who slaughtered it - their opinion on stunning is clear and this is particularly interesting and relevant when you consider the care for which they treat the anmals that they slaughter and the whole ethos of their organisation
For those who dont know, the conditions in which poultry is reared in this country, is cruel to say the least - the vast majority of chicken come from battery farms and when you consider they are kept in tiny cages, fed very dubious food sources to help growth and in general their conditions are very poor then the issue of free range is something else that we as Muslims should further investigate - thats for another day though
A few links from from GMWA regarding stunning
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php?page=viewquestion&id=127
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php?page=viewquestion&id=161
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php?page=viewquestion&id=28
Finally, an excerpt taken from Abu 'Abdissalam blog (Abu 'Abdissalam is a graduate from Dar Al-Hadith Al-Khayriyyah in Makkah. He appears regularly on Islam Channel and Huda TV and is currently a lecturer for Al-Kauthar Institute.)
The general rule is that meat is haram until proven to be halal. One of the ‘proofs’ that meat is halal is if it is presented to us by a Muslim, Jew or Christian. Of course, if we KNOW that the conditions of slaughtering have been met (spilling of blood, mentioning Allah’s name, etc) then this meat is definitely halal. If we do not KNOW for certainty, but it has been presented to us by a Muslim, Jew or Christian, then the stronger of the scholarly opinions is that this meat is halal because of the narration in Bukhari (no. 5507) from ‘A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) who said that some people came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said: “Some people bring meat to us, and we do not know if they mentioned the name of Allah or not.” He said: “Say it yourselves then eat.” If we know for certainty that a particular animal was not slaughtered correctly, whether this was by a Muslim, Jew or Christian, then this meat is haram. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymin said, after quoting the above hadith:
They were new in Islam, and they did not know whether they had said the name of Allah or not, so he said: “Say it yourselves, then eat.” So eating it is permissible even if we do not know whether the one who slaughtered the meat mentioned the name of Allah or not. Similarly it is permissible to eat even if we do not know whether the meat was slaughtered in the proper manner or not, because if the action is carried out by the right people then the basic principle is that it is valid, unless there is evidence to the contrary. So if some meat comes to us from a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian, we should not ask about it or ask how it was slaughtered or whether the name of Allah was mentioned over it. It is halal so long as there is no clear proof that it is haram. This is a way in which Allah has made things easier for us. [Liqaa’aat al-Baab il-Maftooh, 1/77 ]
Glasgow & Scotland
According to HMC website there isnt a single place that has signed up to become certified by HMC in Scotland hence in reality to err on side of caution which is the HMC stance then you CANT GO ANYWHERE TO EAT IN THE WHOLE OF SCOTLAND(let alone Glasgow) and whilst KFC and Chicken Cottage (who also obtain their meat from HFA, see certificates in individual branches - Victoria road is HFA approved) are approved by HFA the truth is that nobody has any idea where every other carry out, take away and restrauants get there meat from - it may very well be halal but nobody knows for sure
so whilst HMC is undoubtedly 100% halal, the issue about stunning and mechanical slaughter is considered perfectly fine by many scholars / organisations across the globe but in the words of GMWA:
"The choice as they say, is yours."
Assalamo Aleykum Jazak Allah
Assalamo Aleykum
Jazak Allah for this. I too received the text claiming KFC on Pollokshaws Road was now halal.
Please could someone clarify the position of Nando's at The Quay? One day it sees to be halal and then it is haram...confused!
It might be an idea to put up a list of all permissible places.
The HMC certified restaurants
http://www.halalmc.net/certified_outlets/certified_rests_tways.html
However, as one of the previous posters said, there are none in Scotland.
There are two HMC butchers in Glasgow though. I'd like to know why the others haven't signed up:
http://www.halalmc.net/certified_outlets/certified_butchers_scotland.html
according to the halal food
according to the halal food guide service, freemans slaughter hosue is halal
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php?page=viewquestion&id=161
i believe the halal certification nandos at the quay has is through freemans - if it definitely is (i maybe wrong) then its halal according to GMWA
Firstly, just because
Firstly, just because something says halal, doesn't meen it is halal. We do not knw what is clearly halal in this country, and what is not...I truly understand what you meen...about the issue raised that you do not knw whether the meat/chiken we eat today in question is halal or not. However, it is a good quality to have ...that if your in doubt about something then you should definitely leave it/not to be touched. Why put yourself in difficulty.
I would like to leave you something to think upon...(P.s. remember if your in doubt about something leave it)
Islam has described pure things as lawful. Allah says: O people: Eat what is lawful and good on earth. And do not follow in the footsteps of Satan, for he is to you an avowed enemy. (The Holy Qur’an 2:168)
Basically there are four things forbidden, as laid down in this Divine edict:
"Believers! Eat the good things that We have provided for you. And be grateful to Allah, if it is Him you worship. He has only forbidden you dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name has been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced to this by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor the transgressing of due limits, then is he guiltless. For Allah is Forgiving, and Merciful." (The Holy Qur’an 2:172-173)
These same four things have been described again in the chapter entitled Al-Maidah, and by way of elaboration six more times of animals have been mentioned in Surah Maidah.
Forbidden for you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which has been invoked the name of other than Allah, that which has been killed by strangling, or by violent blow or by a headlong fall, or by being gorged to death, that which has been partly eaten by a wild animal, unless you are able to slaughter in due form and that which is sacrificed on stone altars. (The Holy Qur’an 5:3)
In addition to this, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) himself described the domesticated donkey as unlawful. (Bukhari)
The Prophet (Peace be upon him) also forbade the eating of the flesh of "sloughed beats and cleaved birds". (Bukhari and Muslim)
In another tradition, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) described fish and locusts as lawful, saying that the sea water is pure and the dead being in it are lawful. (Ahmad Ashab-e-Sunan)
That is why we may eat fish without killing them ourselves.
-On the authority of Abu Ya'la Shahddad ibn Aus, the Messenger of Allah said: “Verily Allah has prescribed proficiency in all things. Thus, if you kill, kill well; and if you slaughter, slaughter well. Let each one of you sharpen his blade and let him spare suffering to the animal he slaughters” (Muslim).
-In an incident narrated by Rafi' bin Khadij, the Prophet told Muslims who wanted to slaughter some animals using reeds, “Use whatever causes blood to flow, and eat the animals if the Name of Allah has been mentioned on slaughtering them...” (Bukhari).
Now the choice is yours, and you decide which turn you want to take....remember ALLAH swt will reward those who spread knowledge and perform there life in the righteous manner...Please carry every act/deed in the right intentions. We as Muslims should help each other out especially in difficulty....Allah is watching each and every one of us....and the best of us are those who do there own research....and if we cannot research on which food should be allowed (halal), then how can we be soo certain that, that "halal" food consume, is genuinely halal. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH...FOR THAT IS THE BEST MUSLIM. May Allah swt forgive us all and may He always guide us to the path of righteousness.
Jazakallah Khair.
I received a text today
I received a text today saying -
Flora Light and Flora Ultra margarine has got pork extracts in it. The pork can be found in the gelatine ingredient. This has been validated by Unilever - the product manufacturer. Please inform as many Muslims, as Flora is a common household product. Flora Original remains pork free.
Jazakallah Sister, thankyou
Jazakallah Sister, thankyou for this..I have also heard about this too. Furthermore, Thankyou for backing this up with a hadith
Jazakallah Sister
Allah hu Alim
Miss_Ahmad
Asalaam Alaikum, I have been
Asalaam Alaikum,
I have been reading all the posts and i must say i am more than impressed that the muslim youth of today is so concerned about halaal and haraam!
I'd like just to add that,why do we question all these MUSLIM run food authorities? Surely these MUSLIMS will have to answer to Allah (the most beneficent and merciful) on the day judgement...The final messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him)taught his ummah to believe each other until PROVEN otherwise...Basically if a MUSLIM says it is halaal then it is halaal unto you and he/she will have to account for that on the day of judgement,but that is only if you have not seen anything illegal done onto it with your EYES...Or there are more than 2 EYE witnesses who have seen this illegal act. I would like to add that i am not a scholar of islam and am merely just expressing an opinion
thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express my opinion on this platform.
Jazakallah Khayr
Chicken cottage is also HMC
Chicken cottage is also HMC and most the other shops in pollocksheilds which i checked ive seen there certificate its the same as kfc's so why is it people still say there halal ???
Aslaam-o-alaikum brothers and
Aslaam-o-alaikum brothers and sisters !!
I recieved a text the other day saying KFC is not halal and all the other food outlets that the Halal Food Authority provides their meat to are also Haram ...
Can someone please confirm whether this is true or not ?
Thanks
Jazak-allah khair
All HMC certified outlets are
All HMC certified outlets are listed on the HMC website, so I think that needs double-checking.
To the most recent poster, please check the HMC website for more information on the differences between HMC and HFA.
chicken cottage on PRW and
chicken cottage on PRW and Vicky Rd are HFA approved not HMC
so...simply put... HFA =
so...simply put...
HFA = bad
HMC= good
?
Yes, however, there hasn't
Yes, however, there hasn't been a big enough push in Glasgow to get butchers onto the HMC programme, let alone the restaurants, etc.
To the brother or sister in
To the brother or sister in admin, it would be fairer to say:
HMC = 100% halal according to all organisations and scholars
HFA = 100% halal in numerous organisations and scholars but not all
The links in the post "Anonymous - 21 Oct 2009 - 15:45" quite clearly show the differences that exists.
The Saudi Fiqh Council for example have ok'd stunning as long as it is done in a certain way - the scholars at HMC are entitled to their opinion but you can not simply disregard what the Saudi Fiqh Council, scholars from Malaysia and the GMWA food guide from England have to say on this issue and this is the same with the mechanical slaughtering were there is opinion supporting it.
Its very dangerous to put a blanket ruling and say something is haraam when quite clearly many reputable scholars have said the opposite - difference exists and it should be presented as such instead of making something completely haraam.
Went to Subway on Victoria
Went to Subway on Victoria Road today and was told they are going to become halal on 16th December like the one is Pollokshields. The lady said they would close on the 15th and everything would then get deep cleaned, get new knives, new chopping boards etc in.
I had received a text message saying their Italian bread and Italian herbs and cheese bread were not halal. When asked if it were suitable for vegetarians, was told yes.
Jazakallah for the update
Jazakallah for the update Zara :-) ...to keep everyone updated about KFC pollockshields it is still not permissable to eat there chicken...as it is not halal. Also, KFC has been given a 3-5 months probabtion period, to certify on whether they have been succesful or not. But, in many cases it has not met the needs and wants of its customers. So Inshallah we should all campaign against KFC, who knows it may become halal pretty soon. Just remember the customer is always right!
Jazakallah khair.
From what i've heard certain
From what i've heard certain people who have shares in other food outlets have started a vendetta against the kfc, saying its not halal to make sure their money keeps rolling in. Anyone here that person.
Received via text.... Do not
Received via text....
Do not drink Fanta Apple.
It contains carcinogenic (E211, E224) fat of pig.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who receives these 'warning' messages.
According to
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=11094
the definition of carcinogenic is Carcinogenic: Causing cancer or contributing to the causation of cancer. Pertaining to a carcinogen.
Sodium benzoate (E211) http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/about/153
says Sodium benzoate (E211) is used in carbonated drinks to prevent mould growth.
Potassium metabisulphate (E224)
http://www.norfad.dk/FoodAddDetails.asp?ENumber=E+224
says the function of Potassium metabisulphate (E224) is as a preservative.
Asalaamualaikum,
Asalaamualaikum,
Bismilliah...
I myself campaigned outside a KFC in east london. The issue is not about HFA and HMC It is about Halal and Haraam. The go to your local masjid and ask the imam is machine slaughter allowed. The answer will be a resounding, NO. I have sent a number of emails to HFA requesting details of the scholars they get their understanding from. I would suggest you do the same. They do not give answers as no reputable scholar has the opinion that machine slaughter in the methods they use is acceptable. My advice to Scottish Muslims either eat vegetarian or find out how your meat was slaughtered. The false understanding that Many Muslims seem to have is that if we are told something is Halal we should accept it. This was valid at the time of the Prophet (s.a.w) as even lay people understood the correct method of slaughter. I asked a butcher in Milton Keynes how the Halal meat he was selling was slaughtered, he said I don't know. People say something is Halal without any knowledge and therefore in our current day and age we must ask otherwise the sin is on ourselves. As for the comments about Malaysian methods of slaughter, there are many none reputable practices accepted. It is simple if a machine dispatches the animal reciting the tasmiyah as it whizzes past is not acceptable. Ask at your local mosque for details. Its time Muslims stood up and said we want a legal definition of Halal so we cannot be sold Haram by liars. May Allah take care of us all and make all our sustenance Halal ameen.
Asalaamualaikum, Oh and don't
Asalaamualaikum,
Oh and don't get me started on fake margerine text messages. Every text you send makes Muslims look more stupid. I fin doubt call the company, but don't send a text and spread another chain message. Astafirullah
Asalaaamualaikum, in
Asalaaamualaikum, in reference to the comment above, about someone having shares in a rival starting a vendetta against KFC. In east london where I live a KFC owner spread a rumour that myself and another brother who were stood outside of his branch everyday (during our lunch breaks) were opening our own fast food restaurant. For the purpose of information only, the same KFC owner called the police whilst I was stood outside and said that I had threatened him. Of course this was a lie, it should also be considered that the owner was running the KFC before the HFA deal.
I will not speculate on the intention of the owner, if you would like to get a fair indication of the owners intention stand close to his branch and see the welcome you get.
The campaign as I see it is not against KFC specifically, its really about Haraam being sold as Halal in the UK. Some Muslims are intentionally selling Haraam others are selling it without knowledge. Either way the industry needs a shake-up. The Muslim Council of Britain and scholars of the UK need to sit down finalise a definition of halal and have it written into uk law. Currently the word of a Muslim is insufficient - which is a very sad point. Astaghfirullah. May Allah help us all.
A note to HFA - putting a note on your website stating that "Machine slaughter does not render the meat Haram" does not make it true. Putting Ayats of the Quran on the website does not make your lies true. Being around for over a decade does not make your meat Halal. MACHINE SLAUGHTER DOES RENDER THE MEAT HARAM.
A final point is that I'm actually the Head of Marketing for a local institute and have no have interest in the fast food industry other than in eating it and eating Halal.
Do not eat Haraam, enjoin good.
i have the answer to your
i have the answer to your problems ..
why dont you all become vegatarians to solve all the hassle..meat is murder...that goes too for animal testing..you meat eaters disgust me...there are other alternatives.
when i see someone with a kebab or burger my blood boils...leave the animals alone!!!!!!
Dear Brother or sister
Dear Brother or sister Assalamu-Alaikum,
Read Surah Al-Imran, Verse 93.
Read Surah Al-Momin, Verse 79, Para 24.
Allah has made meat halal, if you dont like it, dont eat, but dont comment negatively.
i am puzzled
i am puzzled
This may help to enlighten
This may help to enlighten you:
http://www.centralmosque.co.uk/2010/02/hmc-feb-2010-newsletter
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